the release of that audiotape between Donald Trump and is one-time personal
lawyer Michael Cohen and CNN's reporting from sources who say Kevin is claiming
the president knew of the Trump Tower meeting has thrown the president's
former fix her back squarely in the spotlight for what he may or may not say
to robert muller but also how he's treated his one-time client Donald Trump
it's a subject of much debate that will take him now between two attorneys were
no stranger to the spotlight themselves in this story Michael avenatti stormy
Daniels attorney and Alan Dershowitz who's emerged as one of the presidents a
defenders at time he's the author of the best-selling new book the case against
impeaching Trump Michael in the past you've called Michael Cohen quote an
absolute criminal thug you've called him a co-conspirator you're obviously an
ongoing legal battle with him on the stormy Daniels case in terms of this
reporting and his claims about the president's knowledge of the Trump Tower
meeting do you think he's telling the truth here well it's a good question
Anderson I don't know if he's telling the truth I think he likely is telling
the truth but the guy has been all over the map for so many months and years
that I think that as a witness certainly there's questions as to his credibility
professor Schwartz if the reporting turns out to be true and that's big if
and the President did know about the meeting and there were other others
present to corroborate Cohen's story isn't that a major problem or is that a
major problem for the president and Donald Trump jr. who between the two of
them have denied the president's knowledge of the meeting nine times oh
it's a political problem to be sure but I don't think it's a legal problem even
if the president knew of the meeting knew exactly the role of the woman who
was there that she was representing the Russian government and even knew that
they were going to go to try to collect dirt that had already been gotten by the
Russians on Hillary Clinton that would be a political sin but it wouldn't be a
federal crime and I think if this is the best that Cohen has to offer
I don't think he's going to be given immunity by the federal prosecutors he
may have to compose and not only sing in order to get that kind of immunity case
this isn't very much from a legal point of view it's a big deal from a political
and public relations point of view but legal
it's a it's a three on a scale of ten maybe well I mean what's also
interesting about Cohen's story on this and again if it turns out to be true
he claims that there are other people present who heard that as well so if
they're under oath you know I guess you know they could back up with Cohen has
to say if in fact that and it turns out and if it turns out there are no other
people that will affect his credibility as well but I think the big picture is
that even if everything he says is true it's not a crime you know in in my new
book the case against impeaching Trump I set out a hypothetical based on this
possibility a hypothetical of even if the president actively sought material
dirt on Hillary Clinton terrible thing but even if he sought it but the dirt
had already been gathered and he wasn't asking them to hack the DNC or do
anything criminal that would not be a crime it would show quote perhaps
collusion but there's nothing in the federal code that makes collusion itself
a crime well professor I mean about those tapes you tweeted yesterday quote
I didn't say Michael avenatti was wrong but that if he's right how did he access
that confidential information talking about there being more tapes he implied
there were more Trump tapes Giuliani says there's only one with Trump's voice
let's see who's right do you stand by that well I don't want to get personal
at all but I think they're it's hard to imagine how he could have lawfully
gotten a hold of those tapes he did according to press reports have a
conversation with mr. Cohn at a restaurant and that raises some
questions because you know you're not allowed to speak to some buddy who's
counseled who has a lawyer and ask him do you want to work together to hurt
Trump so I I'm not I don't know whether that occurred but if it did occur I
think Michael has to do some explaining Michael well Alan let me let me say this
you keep saying you don't want to get personal with me and you keep getting
personal with me including on foxy otherwise well now I'm gonna tell you I
don't appreciate it I'm willing to put up my track record over the last six
months in this case up against yours any day of the week I have been very very
accurate in my predictions and the statements I've made and the facts and
the fact of the matter is on Sunday you expressed considerable doubt as to
whether I knew what I was talking about and within 48 hours
I was I was prudent out let me finish and within 48 hours I was at I said it
was true I said it was true what you're talking about and that's why it needs
some explanation you did guarantee the American public back in May that
president Trump would resign we're watching our watches and waiting to see
if that prediction comes true that's the one prediction that you really staked
your reputation on so your reputation will turn on whether he does resign or
not well Alan let me tell you I'm going to determine what my reputation turns on
not you I've made many predictions that have been - - let me let me finish I've
made many predictions that have turned out to be true and we got two years left
in this president's term and despite the fact that he thinks you write great
books we're gonna see what really happened Michael I want to redo
something that you tweeted back to the professor on Monday you said I'm
awaiting an apology from Alan Dershowitz and others who once again were proven
wrong I stated in late May during the pressure there were multiple recordings
and that was confirmed today unlike others including mr. Trump I don't make
public statements that are false you because it's now the Washington Post did
report there there are about a hundred recordings we don't know the full nature
of those recordings well back on me I think it was 29th Anderson I stood in
front of the federal courthouse and I demanded the release of all of the Trump
tapes and I stated at the time there were multiple recordings and now we know
that there are indeed over a hundred recordings that have been seized and I
also want to go back to something that was said earlier this information on the
Trump Tower meeting that's not the best information Michael Cohen has I can
assure you of that how do you know that you know that was my question how can
you short again I'm not going to tell you how I know these things but you know
what Alan if you want a man to tell the ethics committee that I don't tell that
to the ethics committee if they al are youhow you had a conversation with a man
who was represented by a lawyer and you didn't ask his lawyers permission and
his lawyer is now apparently complaining about that so you're gonna have to
answer some of these questions it's not enough just for you to say selectively I
don't have to answer that question but I will answer that question I'll get my
jacket personality let's now stand I'll have to have a light truth yeah I'll
ensure you Alan you really need to start talking only about things that you know
about as opposed to things that you have known
knowledge about you have no knowledge of the communications that went on between
me and Michael Cohen's representatives long before that long before that no you
don't know what you're talking about Allen long before that restaurant
meeting you have no idea about the communications that went on relating to
a particular or proposed level of cooperation you just make it up as you
go along you need to go so let me ask you to go finish no let hell you need to
go back now you need to go back and concentrate on what invites you're
getting on Martha's Vineyard since that appears to be what you're really good at
well I'm about to head off to a party so I have to leave in a minute but let me
tell you if are you saying specifically that you were given permission by
Michael Cohen's lawyer to have that conversation with him in the restaurant
that's a question you should answer specifically because if he weren't given
permission to have that conversation with Michael Kohn you may have to answer
to an ethics committee about that conversation because I taught legal
ethics for 35 years and I know a lot about legal ethics know one thing I know
is you not allowed to have a conversation with somebody who's
counseled without the specific approval of the client to have that compass of
the lawyer to have that conversations I think you have to explain that meeting
Allen Allen guess who gave me permission Michael Cohen he gave me permission
again that's not enough Mike that's not an alpha no no Ellen once again you
don't know what you're talking about you know what I want to know I want to know
about the relationship between you and Donald Trump I think you ought to
disclose the extent of the relationship how did you get that happy to do it how
did you get that positive book review why is it that you have to do this good
is it that you two appear to be such close friends now and I think you ought
to disclose madam lationship is I've met him three times in my life all three
times dealing with the Middle East I have no relationship with him but you
have to tell you I do know legal ethics and getting permission from a counseled
client or wrong to talk that client is not enough law I can tell you I've been
teaching legal ethics for a long time about that I am 100% Michael let me just
ask you lastly I want to ask you about the the three additional women you say
you're representing you said that they're they're also paid hush money
can you tell us anymore when that hush money was allegedly paid or anything
else about the alleged relationships and in any proof that they happen in 2015
and 2016 and I find it very interesting that we haven't seen a denial from
Donald Trump or Michael Cohen all day I would think that if I was wrong we would
have seen a denial and Alan I feel sorry for the students that you taught legal
ethics to by the way because you didn't teach them the drill they become they
become justices of the Supreme Court judges some of the most important people
America sure they're very much like it I
wish you had been in Mike if you had been in my class you would not have had
that conversation with Michael Cohen right now and I'm sure they're very
proud I'm sure they're very proud of your conduct over the last two years I'm
sure Michael avenatti they are short say oh thank you very
much appreciated
you
you
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