breaking tonight michael cohen president Trump's former attorney is claiming the
president knew in advance about that Trump Tower meeting back in June 2016 in
which Russians were supposedly going to offer campaign dirt on Hillary Clinton
that according to CNN of course in all their breathless coverage they seem to
be ignoring the important nugget quote to be clear these sources said Cohen
does not have evidence such as audio recordings to corroborate his claim but
he is willing to attest to his account here now to react former US attorney and
Fox News contributor Andy McCarthy and Wall Street Journal columnist Kim
Strasse welcome to both of you Andy let's start with you here boy it seems
like Michael Cohen's gotten very talkative wants a lot of stuff coming
out over the last few days what do you make of this latest claim well I think
it's a he's had a change in posture over the last number of weeks the retention
on Lanny Davis certainly was an indicator or that I think the big
problem he'll have if this is actually his version of events is apparently he
has talked about this before in Prior testimony and prior interviews and
evidently did not Koff this up I've always thought that if
Muller believed that Cohen was somehow the key to proving a collusion case
against Trump there's no way he lets that case walk to the Southern District
of New York so I'd be surprised if this links up to anything that's serious in
the way of collusion like an espionage conspiracy but look the Trump Tower
meeting is bad it's not collusion in the sense that they were that they opened
the investigation over but nobody no one is gonna look good at Andy as we talked
about this I think we've we'd forget Hillary Clinton paid for dirt yeah that
was assembled by the Russians and in the form of the steel dossier so she
actually went further than meeting with someone her people paid for it they got
dirt and then it ended up making its way all the way through the US government
Laura it's a big deal no well you don't look I don't think
that it's bad if campaigns are turning to foreign governments for dirt it's not
collusion it's not something that's impeachable it's icky but that's what
this is Kimberly let's go to you on this Rudy
Giuliani was on CNN as this came out and he had a comment about the well the
veracity of mr. Cohen let's watch there's nobody that I know that knows
him that hasn't warned me that if he's back he's up against the wall he'll pull
like crazy because he's alive all his life Wow war of words that seems like
we're probably only still calling to release more information well just the
kind of guy you want as a lawyer right but look I think the issue here is first
you got to decide whether or not you believe the CNN reporting and there has
been a lot of breathless reporting out there that has turned out not to be
correct then even if it is correct you have to decide if you believe mr. Cohen
now versus what as Andy said he might have said in the past and whether or not
there's any evidence which apparently there is not in which case this may come
down to a case of he said versus three other he said saying the opposite but I
mean what Andy said is true it kind of looks icky but I think the bigger point
here is is there a crime and it's obviously was not a crime for Trump jr.
to meet with this Russian national and find out what she had to talk about it's
also not a crime for mr. Trump to have had prior knowledge of it either mr.
Trump senior the president the question is is he ever under oath said that he
didn't know was he in any situation where he might be viewed as having lied
to federal law enforcement I'm not really sure that's the case so it's
another potentially bad headline if it's true but I'm not necessarily sure it's
any legal jeopardy and Andy this vasila it's a woman was was there to push the
Magnitsky act like she was trying to get him to push Congress on that Magnitsky
act because of Russian adoptions well I mean the whole thing was do with Hillary
so it was a big scam big play and they were all pleasant sounds like they were
all played and meeting jared was bored that I think he
got up and walked out or man affort walked out and so it was a big nothing
but if this is where they are now Andy I'm on this level and we're gonna get to
the Twitter issue in a moment what does this tell you about the state of the
Muller investigation it seems to me that the Muller investigation is winding down
to a conclusion that investigation or that indictment that they brought
recently against the twelve Russians who are actually intelligence officers I
don't think that's the kind of thing that you should indict but putting that
aside if you read the indictment and the logic of it it kind of excludes the
possibility that there could have been the kind of espionage conspiracy that
everybody was so whipped up about that caused the investigation to start in the
first place and led to Muller's appointment so if it is winding down I
sure hope it's winding down because it's like it ought to yeah this report out
today that Muller is looking through the president's tweets yeah well who thought
he wasn't I've been looking at them too cam if you've been looking at them I've
been looking at this for you guys because Preet Bharara of course former
US Attorney Southern District Preet Bharara was on CNN today with Wolf
Blitzer and they were all excited about this tweet story let's watch the tweets
that he sends late at night and early in the morning and often out of anger I
think goes some way to showing what his State of Mind was and to prove
obstruction I'm quoting Giuliani now if you're going to obstruct justice you do
it quietly and secretly not in public what are you making them
well you know yes what Rudy Giuliani says is the norm this president likes to
break norms and maybe he likes to violate the law in a way that breaks
forms as well Kimberly the cheerleading here is extraordinary but we have been
witnessing this now for going on two years and and as I just said headline
after headline saying oh definitely collusion and then no obstruction of
justice and really it will only be a few weeks now and look what Muller is look
at this point and nothing has come of it so far other than those indictments
we've had related to charges that have nothing to do with either of those two
central topics or anything that the press is actively pressing for so I mean
I agree with Andy I would wish that if Muller has decided that the he has
decided that Trump is not a target that he's not going down the road that even
if he's still wrapping up his probe that he'd feel he'd had a duty to tell the
country the president is no longer a target so that people can start to move
on and eat early said earlier today that you know if this is where they are
looking over tweets then this is just like the dread just like this is I mean
it's just ridiculous I'm sorry now we're at tweets and what you know the
interviews this is all public somehow do you how are you obstructing an
investigation with public comments I don't I'm not following that I guess it
possible but I don't follow that yeah but see the whole thing Laura is
preposterous because you know with due respect to pre you have state of mind or
criminal state of mind is irrelevant unless you've done something that
actually can amount to obstruction the president cannot obstruct justice by
taking lawful actions that are within his constitutional prerogatives like
pardoning people or way or a firing Comey are weighing in on whether
somebody should be prosecuted which prosecutors across this country do every
day or or or complaining that Jeff Sessions didn't recuse him recuse
himself right abstracting John it's an opinion no it's a yeah I understand the
style problem like they don't like the way Trump goes about things but you
still gotta kind of like prove the thing that's a crime before you start worrying
about what somebody state of mind was yeah but a former US attorney in New
York like prepar I should know better I mean yeah you know I know he's on CNN
but you got a no but you can't say that on television I fantastic conversation
guys thanks so much
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