Hello, Your Honor.
Hello.
This is the case ofThomas v. McKey.
Thank you, Jerome. Good day, everyone.
AUDIENCE: Good day!
Ms. Thomas, you and the defendant, Mr. McKey,
met on an online dating website,
and the conversation quickly jumped offline and into Mr. McKey's bed.
You believed you were in a committed relationship
with the defendant,
and was devastated when he denied your pregnancy, is that correct?
Yes, Your Honor.
Mr. McKey, you say that there is no way
you could be the biological father of the plaintiff's son, Karson.
You claim once you took a look at Ms. Thomas's son,
you were 100% sure that her baby belonged to another man, is that correct?
Yes, Your Honor.
All right, so I'm going to start with you, Ms. Thomas.
Why do you believe you were in a committed relationship
with the defendant?
First of all, we met on a dating website, as you spoke.
We started off talking.
And then once we started knowing each other, who we were...
JUDGE LAKE: How long did you talk on the phone?
Maybe about a month or two.
Okay.
And then I started going to see him,
maybe like about a 45 minutes' drive
from where I live,
like every other day.
So I'm assuming... I'm spending the night, staying the night with him,
things like that. So I'm assuming...
And you're having a good time, getting to know one another.
You are obviously, since you're spending the night,
already started having sex.
That's right.
And so what did you like about him?
What were you drawn to? He was kind, he was...
His looks. He's not a bad looking person.
(SCATTERED LAUGHTER)
He's funny. He's hilarious. He keeps a smile on my face.
JUDGE LAKE: So he's funny, he's good-looking,
you thought you had met a nice guy.
Right.
Did it turn into a relationship at some point?
Well, I thought maybe it was gonna head that way.
But, evidently, he wasn't looking for what I was looking for.
Mmm-hmm. So, Mr. McKey.
You're having sex, having this relationship going,
but you weren't feeling like making a commitment.
I wasn't really, Your Honor.
JUDGE LAKE: Okay.
Say something else besides that.
No, really, Mr. McKey. Tell me about it, though.
A lot of times we are in situations like this,
where there are two people on two different pages.
And I hear a lot of times when women say,
"You know, I was committed to him,"
and then the man will say,
"Well, I wasn't committed to her."
Or even vice versa.
Sometimes, you know, the man is committed and faithful, and the woman...
Did you know Ms. Thomas wanted to be in a relationship with you?
Not really, Your Honor, but...
Did you all ever discuss being in a relationship?
No, ma'am.
Oh, you didn't?
No, ma'am.
So what was it about her you were attracted to?
That picture she had online.
JUDGE LAKE: Okay, so you liked what you saw...
MCKEY: Yes, ma'am.
...and so as you were dating,
you just didn't feel like you were,
at that point, ready to have a commitment?
Yes, ma'am.
How long had you been driving 45 minutes to see him, Ms. Thomas?
Oh, about a month or so, or longer.
So about a month, you would drive to go see him?
Like every other day, I would drive like...
At nighttime, I would put my kids to bed, I'd go see him
until it was time for them to go to school.
I would wake up and be back home before my kids were awake.
So, I have an older child, she would be home with them, but...
I didn't do it every day. I did it like every other day.
And so, after this month, Mr. McKey,
you're in this casual relationship,
she's driving to come see you.
You don't feel like you're ready to make a commitment.
At some point, you find out you're pregnant.
And when you find out,
you call Mr. McKey and tell him?
THOMAS: Yes, ma'am.
He thought I was just joking, like playing around, maybe just sick.
So, maybe like, a couple of weeks later,
I said, "Let me take a pregnancy test."
So I took a pregnancy test, I took a picture of it,
and I sent it to him through text message.
He was like, "What is this?"
I was like, "A pregnancy test."
He said, "I don't know how to read these.
"So tell me what that means."
I said, "I'm pregnant."
He was like, "Oh, okay, so, whatever you decide to do, just let me know."
I believe that's all he said.
So, Mr. McKey,
when you found out she was pregnant,
what were you thinking, sir?
Well, she called me when she was like,
three months pregnant,
I got a phone call and I was at work,
and I told her I'd call her back.
But I ended up blocking her number.
What?
He blocked it after we had that conversation.
Really?
MCKEY: After I blocked her number,
she had the baby, and called me from another number.
So, she called to tell you she was pregnant,
and you just said, "Okay," and then blocked her number?
Yes, ma'am, Your Honor.
Oh, you're cold-blooded.
So you blocked her number?
And never heard from her again
because the number was blocked?
Yes, Your Honor.
And you didn't call him back again, Ms. Thomas?
I tried to keep calling. I thought maybe the phone was off,
or maybe he had, you know, low service, or you know, it just turns off.
So I kept trying, kept trying.
I still didn't get nothing.
I so happened to change my phone number.
So he didn't know my new number.
Oh!
THOMAS: Yeah.
So after I had my baby...
So, hold on, Mr. McKey,
you never heard from Ms. Thomas again
during the whole pregnancy?
I haven't heard from her, Your Honor.
All while she was pregnant?
Not while she was pregnant.
So you weren't there when the baby was born?
No, Your Honor.
So after the baby was born,
you tried back again with this new number?
I tried back again, like a week later, with the new number.
Then he answered.
And I told him I just had my baby.
He still couldn't believe me.
He was like, "Send me some pictures."
He was at work then. He was like, "Send me some pictures."
So I sent him some pictures.
And he was like,
"That's my baby? Are you sure that's my baby?"
I mean, he looked at the color of it, why he is the color he is.
JUDGE LAKE: So, wait a minute, Mr. McKey,
when you got the pictures, what were you thinking?
Like, "This is not my baby," Your Honor.
I'm like, "Damn, this baby makes number eight,
"right here."
Number eight for who? You or her?
MCKEY: For her.
THOMAS: I have eight.
That'd be number eight.
JUDGE LAKE: Number eight?
So I'm kinda confused.
Whoa!
So did you know she had children when you were dating her?
THOMAS: Yeah, he knew I had kids.
I didn't know she had eight kids, you know.
He knew...
Seven. This little boy makes eight.
So, Mr. McKey, she sent you a text
with the picture of the baby.
Your first response was what?
The baby look like he could be from Donald Trump.
(LAUGHTER)
THOMAS: Like, really?
(GIGGLES)
Oh!
I didn't expect that one.
He thinks that the color make a difference.
The color doesn't make a difference.
I think what you're saying is
you thought the baby was biracial?
That's what you meant?
Aw, he's adorable.
So when you saw the baby, you said, "That's not mine."
MCKEY: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE LAKE: Not just because of the skin color,
but you felt that the features and even the characteristics of the baby
were of a child you believed to be biracial?
Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE LAKE: Okay.
'Cause you know in this courtroom,
we don't play around judging kids by their skin color.
But I'm trying to understand when you say
it looked like it could be...
I understand what you're saying.
(LAUGHTER)
But at this point,
how are you feeling in your heart,
like, are you just so doubtful
you don't want to attach yourself...
If she was meeting me on a dating site,
whoever else do you think she might be meeting?
You feel like because she has more than one child,
that she, potentially, was entertaining, a lot of different men.
THOMAS: Right.
JUDGE LAKE: And so it's not just you she was sleeping with.
Is that what you're trying to say?
Why mine?
Oh, now I get what you're saying.
Could you just talk?
I'm trying to, uh...
I feel like I'm trying to, uh...
Right...
It's like reading Morse code, pulling teeth, and everything all at once,
trying to get a story out of you, Mr. McKey.
You're thinking maybe she was already pregnant,
is that what you're thinking?
Because it was only a one-month affair?
It was an affair of longer than a month.
It's just how fast it happened in a month.
Wait a minute, explain that.
MCKEY: I meet you April 1st,
and April 20th, we getting it in.
It didn't take long.
Oh, you're saying it's because
she had sex with you so quickly,
that you felt like, maybe, this was the type of person
or type of woman who's also having sex with other people?
Online dating...
When we first started off, we were using protection.
And he knew that, and he was like...
he wanted to... without it.
I was like, "No, you know, I'm fertile."
"I just had a baby a year or two ago.
"So you know I'm fertile, so I can't."
So this particular time, we didn't have anything, so...
I get it, you don't have to go any further.
No, no, but the point is this, though,
I will say this, Mr. McKey,
once a woman tells you she is fertile, you believe her.
THOMAS: Right.
No really, I mean, if she already has seven children,
that is a very fertile woman.
I almost had a heart attack when I found that out.
Whoa!
I hid this pregnancy the whole nine months.
You did?
From my whole family.
Because I didn't want to have another child without their dad.
So the entire nine months you went without the support...
When I went into labor, my family was like, "What?
"You're in the hospital having what?"
I said I'm in the hospital having my baby.
And you had no idea, Mr. McKey?
No, I didn't know she was having a baby, Your Honor.
But you look at that baby.
He looks just like you. Just a different color.
So she called you and told you she was pregnant,
and you blocked her number.
Now you see her in here crying,
'cause she had to go through this entire pregnancy by herself,
she couldn't get in touch with you,
and you just standing there, casual, like,
"It didn't mean anything to me."
If that's your biological child, then what?
You've missed the entire beginning of his life.
But what if he's not mine, Your Honor?
What if he is not?
I apologize if he is not. But I'm 100% sure...
So when is the first time you met Karson?
I mean, he was like, a week old.
So now, when you got there and you saw the baby, talk to me about how you felt.
THOMAS: The same way he's feeling now.
He questioned it, like,
"Are you sure. Is it mine? Why is his skin color..."
That's all he keeps saying.
But he adores him. I'm not gonna lie.
But he just questioned the skin color.
That's like when we went and took the blood test,
we stopped at a store, she went in the store first,
I grab the baby out of the car seat,
take him in the store,
sit down, I had a lady walk up, like,
"That's a cute baby, right there.
"His mama white?
"You know, I'm not racist or nothing, but his mama white?"
I'm like, "His mama right there."
So she says, "Is his daddy white?"
I'm like, "I'm the daddy."
"I'm supposed to be the daddy, but we just took a test.
"You know, I know."
She's like, "Baby, I pray for you."
That's what the lady said in the store?
MCKEY: She was ready to get mad, but you...
That's the thing. I have to do that every day.
Somebody's like, "Is his mama white, or is his daddy white?"
So you all can't even enjoy
these beautiful, precious moments,
these beginnings with the child,
because every time you're walking around
with this beautiful baby,
somebody looks at either one of you all,
and tries to discredit the fact
that you could be the child's parent?
Right. My family says he looks like him,
by the nose and everything else.
He snuffles when he sleeps, like him,
he grunts like him and everything else.
They look alike.
Mr. McKey, when you look at the baby,
in terms of the features,
do you feel like there's a resemblance?
My mama says he could be mine,
but my auntie says,
"She needs to find the dad of that baby."
Okay, so even in your own family,
the response has been...
Is off.
Is off.
Karson's eight months old.
So you've been doing this all this time?
Yes, ma'am.
Well, listen, this courtroom is about getting to the truth,
and I have to ask difficult questions,
I need to ask you were you with any other men
during the time Karson was conceived?
No, ma'am.
All right. So do you have any other kids, Mr. McKey?
I have a daughter.
You do? And so this would be your first son?
I have two more on the way.
You have two more kids on the way right now?
Yes ma'am, Your Honor.
With your spouse or your girlfriend?
Girlfriend.
Okay, so, the children were planned?
No. Okay.
THOMAS: Are you talking about me?
So you have twins on the way?
No, not twins, but two different women.
Are you talking about me?
I just asked were you having a baby with your girlfriend.
They're both your girlfriends?
Like two sisters.
WOMAN: What?
Wait a minute.
Did you just say you have two sisters pregnant
in the same family?
Yes, Your Honor.
Mr. McKey, you up here lying? Are you serious?
Yes, Your Honor.
Two sisters in the same family?
They're both having your baby at the same time?
Probably a month apart.
THOMAS: Wow.
Mr. McKey,
please tell me you're not going to end up
in this courtroom again...
(LAUGHTER)
I might be, Your Honor.
You might see me in the next 120 days.
It's not funny, but I'm literally like, oh...
'Cause you're serious.
Yes, ma'am.
You ain't said this much all day.
So the question of the day becomes
when are you gonna start wearing a condom?
You can't go on like this, Mr. McKey.
That's three paternity cases going on at one time.
These are babies. These are babies.
These are people.
These are little beautiful people
you're bringing in the world.
It's not a sport.
Just because I have eight, that don't mean I'm doing all that...
I've been married, I'm a widow.
So four of my kids are from my husband.
It's not like I'm out here just sleeping around.
Ms. Thomas, I want you to just take a moment
and explain to Mr. McKey,
if, in fact, your assertion is true
and Karson is his biological child,
what do you want from him?
Just, he's a boy.
Boys need their dad.
So, just be there for my son.
All right, in light of everything I've heard,
we need to get some answers.
'Cause we need to figure out what we're doing here.
Jerome, let me have this envelope.
Here you go.
These results were prepared by DNA Diagnostics
and they read as follows,
"In the case of Thomas v. McKey,
"when it comes to eight-month-old Karson Thomas,
"it has been determined by this court,
"Mr. McKey,
"you are not the father."
THOMAS: Are you serious?
MCKEY: Hmm.
He is not the father, Ms. Thomas.
I'll be damned...
I'm sorry, like I said, I'm sorry.
Do you know who Karson's father is?
Yes, my ex, before I met him.
Did you know that and just want it to be Mr. McKey's?
No, I didn't think of it at all. It was a time space in between.
Honestly, for Karson's sake,
I'm glad we got down to the bottom of this.
I need you to do what you need to do,
and find this child's father.
Because I don't want this baby walking around the streets
of his community, his whole life,
facing what he did as a baby.
It's even bigger than the biology of it.
It's about this child,
being able to understand and be able to say confidently,
"No, that's my mother and that's my father."
All right. That's what I want for him.
All right, I wish you the very best of luck.
Court is adjourned.
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